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The Instigator
Maya9
Pro (for)
Losing
39 Points
The Contender
Tatarize
Con (against)
Winning
47 Points

An omnipotent, perfect creator being cannot exist

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Started: 6/20/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 239 times Debate No: 4461
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (24)

 

Maya9

Pro

My argument is simple. The existence of a perfect, omnipotent creator is impossible because the very idea implies that a being can do everything and anything. In other words, there is NOTHING he cannot do. However, the very truth of that statement is prohibitive, restrictive of the aforementioned creator. If he (assuming for the purposes of the simplicity a male persona) cannot do anything wrong, that itself makes him incapable of something. He would therefore be imperfect.
Tatarize

Con

Perfect does not mean omnibenevolent or omnimalevolent.

"If he cannot do anything wrong..." -- The above objection shows that you are misusing the terms and as such perfection does not preclude evil acts. A perfect omnipotent creator being could do something evil. In fact, such a being could do everything evil by virtue of being omnipotent.
Debate Round No. 1
Maya9

Pro

You assume that I meant "wrong" in the sense of "evil." I did not. I meant "wrong" in the sense of "incorrect."
Tatarize

Con

>>You assume that I meant "wrong" in the sense of "evil." I did not. I meant "wrong" in the sense of "incorrect."

An acceptable leap on my part. Thank you for clarifying your argument. Your argument is that a perfect all-powerful being could not do something incorrectly? When we say that you did something wrong, we mean to suggest that the predefined goal of a task was not properly achieved. A perfect all-powerful being could not, for example, make a poorly constructed house while intending to make a well constructed house? But being all powerful, such a being clearly could create every half-assed thing possible.

Your argument roughly breaks down to the idea that there can be no desync between the goals of an perfect all-powerful being and the results of said the implementation of that power? However, clearly there is no goal impossible to do for such a creator being.

In short your argument breaks down to the premise that a perfect all-powerful being cannot fail.

This is however false, all such a being would need to do is stop being perfect and all-powerful and it would fail all the time. If failure were the goal of such a being, that failure would be quickly realized... and if it weren't... paradoxically... it would be.

If such a being simply intended to fail it would. As such doing something wrong is well within the range of talents for the all-powerful.
Debate Round No. 2
Maya9

Pro

So your argument is that a perfect being could only do the one thing I propose he cannot do by ceasing to be perfect? In other words, a perfect being could only exist if at some point he made a decision not to be perfect. Whose argument are you trying to prove?

I would also argue that failure cannot be a goal. If one succeeded in failing, it would nonetheless be a success due to the fact that the desired goal was accomplished.
Tatarize

Con

>>In other words, a perfect being could only exist if at some point he made a decision not to be perfect.

No. The necessity to exist isn't contingent on choosing to do something imperfectly but that that option is not limited.

As a living breathing human being could I kill myself? Clearly then I would neither being living nor breathing and by many definitions remain human. As such, as a semi-powerful living being I could at some point allow myself to be non-powerful as well as not-alive. I am arguing that the same ability is within the preview of an all-powerful being. Such a being could stop being perfect and stop being all powerful.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 12 records.
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 5 months ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
CON is right, an all powerful being could literally do anything, even create a rock that he couldn't lift, do something imperfectly, or even give up his power, an all powerful being is not constrained by silly things like logic.
Posted by Logical-Master 5 months ago
Logical-Master
I've always seen "omnipotent' to be used as hyperbole.
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