Darth Vader was framed
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| Started: | 7/31/2008 | Category: | Entertainment |
| Updated: | 3 months ago | Status: | Voting Period |
| Viewed: | 277 times | Debate No: | 4859 |
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (43)
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 Pro Well that last name should not be on the list. I am not talking about heartburn. Darth Vader, the man behind the black plastic mask, was framed. Plain and simple. This is clear: We all think Vader was so bad and that he killed little younglins, tried to kill LUke, and that hoo haa, but this is not the fact. What it really happened: he was possesed. By the emperor. The emperor was a master of the force and needed someone to control, so he picked Anakin. Since Anakin had a kid on the way, the emperor hoped to make another apprentice. (Since Jedi don't marry, Anakin was an unusually lucky catch). So as it went, the emperor possesed Anakin... made him kill Mace Windu, fight Obi Wan... and the rest. Of course when the emperor was shocking Luke, his power was temporarily weakened in Vader. (In the 3rd movie, when the emperor shocks Windu and such, it is clear he loses control over Anakin, since Anakin starts repenting killing Windu. In this way... anakin overcomes when the emperor tries to shock LUke, kills the emperor... and then has a disco party... THE END  Con I would like to say Darth Vador/Anikan was NOT framed, because he had essentially free will to join the dark side. He did have a chid due (although it was twins...), and he saw a vision of his wife dying. That on it's own means he was not supposed to still be a jedi. Yoda CLEARLY states, that "Fear leads to hate hate leads to anger anger leads to suffering. Thus fear leads to the dark side." I would also like to say he may have been tempted to join the dark side, but this is of coarse due to the fact that he broke the law and fell in love. =============================================================================== On another note, I would like to say the way he died was unfair, but so was the children's deaths. I have more, but would like to give my opponent some time to argue the basics |
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Pro Plus Anakin wanted the power to free his mom and the slaves (What could be more noble right?) There was no way that Qui-Gon would not train him and therefore he was destined to be Jedi in any case Now on your topic of free choice...it is clear that Anakin was involved from the emperor from the minute he became a Jedi. Sure he didn't seem very attched in the first movie, when palpatine was just a Senator, but he was surely great friends by the second movie... before he got involved with Padme and had the vision that eventually lead him to the dark side. Not to mention the fact that the emperor had sent Darth Maul early on in the first movie to get OBi-Wan and Qui-gon and stuff and clearly, if the emperor can tell the future (as revealed in episode 6), he surely knew of Anakin right at the beginning before Padme and love was in the picture, so the emperor could have easily (and did) corrupt Anakin through the force. remember Anakin's medichlorines were off the scale. Now you say that he was tempted by love and because he broke the law, but it is clear that even other Jedi like Obi Wan supported Anakin and that he didn't convert to dark right after marriage. The visions... they came after Anakin met the emperor so clearly the emperor could have caused them So there go all of your arguments and you never responded to any of my opening arguments directly, so therefore i must urge an affirmative ballot It is as clear as the crystals in a jedi's lightsaber...Darth Vader was framed. Con not necessarly true some people may think of other fictional villins when they think: here is a short list of others: Cruella'de Ville Darth Maul Wicked Witch of the West Venom (from Spider man, since we are thinking of that Doc-oc who was possessed, by mechanical arms and wound up being good, so it is debateable if he should be on the list, sandman, Eddie, the goblin dude I can't remember his name...) the list could keep going... "Well that last name should not be on the list. I am not talking about heartburn. Darth Vader, the man behind the black plastic mask, was framed. Plain and simple." He was not really framed, thus that arguement is void and so is the topic. "Well that last name should not be on the list. I am not talking about heartburn. Darth Vader, the man behind the black plastic mask, was framed. Plain and simple." Yes he killed innocent people to save the lives of four people (well he thought it was three...) "By the emperor. The emperor was a master of the force and needed someone to control, so he picked Anakin. Since Anakin had a kid on the way, the emperor hoped to make another apprentice. (Since Jedi don't marry, Anakin was an unusually lucky catch). So as it went, the emperor possesed Anakin... made him kill Mace Windu, fight Obi Wan... and the rest. Of course when the emperor was shocking Luke, his power was temporarily weakened in Vader. (In the 3rd movie, when the emperor shocks Windu and such, it is clear he loses control over Anakin, since Anakin starts repenting killing Windu." es he needed an apprentice, and chose Luke. He even made the dark side sound good to Luke, saying that the jedi were weak and the dark side had all kinds of power. The only reason he was a lucky catch to the dark side is because he had broken the jedi law, and had married. Yoda had made it clear that that was dangerous, but he refused to follow thus was destined to join the dark side. "In this way... anakin overcomes when the emperor tries to shock LUke, kills the emperor... and then has a disco party... THE END" Yes, and that just proves my point, Anakin could have resisted at any time. now for your recent arguements: "Anakin was always meant to be a jedi...this was clear from when his medichlorines (jedi's molecules that connect them to the force) were off the chart. It would me a mistake of the entire jedi council to allow such a powerful youth not be trained by the jedi. Yoda might have disagreed with Anakin's training, but it is clear that he wanted power and that if the jedi didn't take him, the dark side may (The emperor can easily sense someone with power)" No he was ment to use the force, not neccessarily a jedi. His medichlorines were off the chart, and yes it would be a mistake for the jedi council to not train him, but after seeing the dark in him they should have killed him, before, he became such a great threat. "Plus Anakin wanted the power to free his mom and the slaves (What could be more noble right?) There was no way that Qui-Gon would not train him and therefore he was destined to be Jedi in any case" Yes he wanted to free the slaves, but when he joined the dark side he was obsessed with power. "Now on your topic of free choice...it is clear that Anakin was involved from the emperor from the minute he became a Jedi. Sure he didn't seem very attched in the first movie, when palpatine was just a Senator, but he was surely great friends by the second movie... before he got involved with Padme and had the vision that eventually lead him to the dark side. Not to mention the fact that the emperor had sent Darth Maul early on in the first movie to get OBi-Wan and Qui-gon and stuff and clearly, if the emperor can tell the future (as revealed in episode 6), he surely knew of Anakin right at the beginning before Padme and love was in the picture, so the emperor could have easily (and did) corrupt Anakin through the force. remember Anakin's medichlorines were off the scale." Yes, the vision would not have lead him to the dark side had he not have any visions. If he had not married he would not have had a vision. They may have gotten him through the force, but that was only because he was power hungry, which always leads to to darkness. "Now you say that he was tempted by love and because he broke the law, but it is clear that even other Jedi like Obi Wan supported Anakin and that he didn't convert to dark right after marriage." Not right after marriage, but it was after he was married, and the marriage played the biggest role, because his vision was of his wife dying, thus if he had not married, he probably would not have joined the dark side. "The visions... they came after Anakin met the emperor so clearly the emperor could have caused them" I concede that is true, however, had he not cared for her, it would not have been so powerful over him. "So there go all of your arguments and you never responded to any of my opening arguments directly, so therefore i must urge an affirmative ballot" Ahh, I have just argued all points possible to argue, thus Darth vader was not framed. "It is as clear as the crystals in a jedi's lightsaber...Darth Vader was framed." once again framed is not an accurate word. |
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That's been tried. They tend to invade.
"it survives, it will most likely be called "USAJR" or something, at leat in slang, in other countries."
for a second I didn't get that meant USA jr. Lol. Perhaps "New America?"
"I believe someone said something about a nice island...or Xera I believe said something about the Amazon, neither have a government... in the Amazon you may be suished though :)"
Like I said, they invade. If it weren't for the Antarctic Treaty System, I'd try Antarctica, but thanks to it, they invade if ya try there too.
Also, some states did accept the currency of other states- though lemme tell ya something, in those days state currencies weren't really much of a "currency" anyway, they were useful for transactions with the states and a few uber-patriots and that's about it. A lot of vendors preferred foreign gold-backed currencies, such as the Spanish one (from which our dollar symbol was taken, it was so popular here :D).
We spent most of the time (suchas in 3rd-4th grade) on math, and reading. You can once again thank the faulty govrnment for letting newborns (those who were born yesterday) teach the children.
That siad, what I have learned (quotes from my teacher)
is:
"When the 13 colonies originated, the government was falling apart, due to the governments wish not to rule as strongly as Great Britin. Every colony had their own currancy, and say for example (this was a Wyoming school okay) that, even though we are 7 miles from Nebraska, they have their own different kind of currancy, meanin that they would:
A) not accept Wyoming money
B) Say the money isn't worth as much as Nebraska money, so that you have to pay more for the same thing.
Due to lack of taxes, no real roads were built, and we fell into a state of choas."
That leads me to believe, without an organized sociaty (with taxes) we will fall apart as a whole.
I ma sorry you don't see my way.
False. A government funded by user fees is possible, and has never been attempted, therefore never been disproven.
"herwise, it would be when the US, were in the 13 colonies, and they all made their own currency, and laws, with no taxation. You know what that led to? Choas, which is why the laws are how they are."
False. One, the United States under the Articles of Confederation DID have taxes. They were simply state taxes, rather than federal taxes. Two, the federal government was only permitted to ask for donations, not charge user fees, so their model of funding is not comparable to the one I am advocating. Three, "Chaos" is not an accurate description of the United States at that time. It was not a major world power, and the federal government had no power, thus the states acted as sovereign entities. Simply having the organization handled at a lower level is not equivalent to chaos.
"I thought such a skilled debater such as yourself, would know his history, and understood the laws, I'm making a wild guess that I was wrong."
False wild guess. I am perfectly aware of the history of that period, evidently more than you, because you obviously weren't paying close attention when you learned about them, or you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement as "no taxation," or "Chaos." Currency issues can easily be handled by a little thing known as the gold standard (or other commodity standards, whichever one people choose to use is fine with me as long as it's an actual value).
ALLL HAAIIILLL BRRRIIIITTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNIIIIAAA!!!!!!!
unless you only watch 1 a day, then it is debatable, but maybe once every other month is reasonable for an average Star Wars fan...fanatics are different.... lyk my bros (6 and 3) watch episode 3 all the times...I'm surprised they don't always ask for it to be their bedtime movie....prolly cuz it's 2 much lyk my dad.