Darth Vader was framed
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| Started: | 7/31/2008 | Category: | Entertainment |
| Updated: | 3 months ago | Status: | Voting Period |
| Viewed: | 276 times | Debate No: | 4859 |
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 Pro Well that last name should not be on the list. I am not talking about heartburn. Darth Vader, the man behind the black plastic mask, was framed. Plain and simple. This is clear: We all think Vader was so bad and that he killed little younglins, tried to kill LUke, and that hoo haa, but this is not the fact. What it really happened: he was possesed. By the emperor. The emperor was a master of the force and needed someone to control, so he picked Anakin. Since Anakin had a kid on the way, the emperor hoped to make another apprentice. (Since Jedi don't marry, Anakin was an unusually lucky catch). So as it went, the emperor possesed Anakin... made him kill Mace Windu, fight Obi Wan... and the rest. Of course when the emperor was shocking Luke, his power was temporarily weakened in Vader. (In the 3rd movie, when the emperor shocks Windu and such, it is clear he loses control over Anakin, since Anakin starts repenting killing Windu. In this way... anakin overcomes when the emperor tries to shock LUke, kills the emperor... and then has a disco party... THE END  Con I would like to say Darth Vador/Anikan was NOT framed, because he had essentially free will to join the dark side. He did have a chid due (although it was twins...), and he saw a vision of his wife dying. That on it's own means he was not supposed to still be a jedi. Yoda CLEARLY states, that "Fear leads to hate hate leads to anger anger leads to suffering. Thus fear leads to the dark side." I would also like to say he may have been tempted to join the dark side, but this is of coarse due to the fact that he broke the law and fell in love. =============================================================================== On another note, I would like to say the way he died was unfair, but so was the children's deaths. I have more, but would like to give my opponent some time to argue the basics |
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Pro Plus Anakin wanted the power to free his mom and the slaves (What could be more noble right?) There was no way that Qui-Gon would not train him and therefore he was destined to be Jedi in any case Now on your topic of free choice...it is clear that Anakin was involved from the emperor from the minute he became a Jedi. Sure he didn't seem very attched in the first movie, when palpatine was just a Senator, but he was surely great friends by the second movie... before he got involved with Padme and had the vision that eventually lead him to the dark side. Not to mention the fact that the emperor had sent Darth Maul early on in the first movie to get OBi-Wan and Qui-gon and stuff and clearly, if the emperor can tell the future (as revealed in episode 6), he surely knew of Anakin right at the beginning before Padme and love was in the picture, so the emperor could have easily (and did) corrupt Anakin through the force. remember Anakin's medichlorines were off the scale. Now you say that he was tempted by love and because he broke the law, but it is clear that even other Jedi like Obi Wan supported Anakin and that he didn't convert to dark right after marriage. The visions... they came after Anakin met the emperor so clearly the emperor could have caused them So there go all of your arguments and you never responded to any of my opening arguments directly, so therefore i must urge an affirmative ballot It is as clear as the crystals in a jedi's lightsaber...Darth Vader was framed. Con not necessarly true some people may think of other fictional villins when they think: here is a short list of others: Cruella'de Ville Darth Maul Wicked Witch of the West Venom (from Spider man, since we are thinking of that Doc-oc who was possessed, by mechanical arms and wound up being good, so it is debateable if he should be on the list, sandman, Eddie, the goblin dude I can't remember his name...) the list could keep going... "Well that last name should not be on the list. I am not talking about heartburn. Darth Vader, the man behind the black plastic mask, was framed. Plain and simple." He was not really framed, thus that arguement is void and so is the topic. "Well that last name should not be on the list. I am not talking about heartburn. Darth Vader, the man behind the black plastic mask, was framed. Plain and simple." Yes he killed innocent people to save the lives of four people (well he thought it was three...) "By the emperor. The emperor was a master of the force and needed someone to control, so he picked Anakin. Since Anakin had a kid on the way, the emperor hoped to make another apprentice. (Since Jedi don't marry, Anakin was an unusually lucky catch). So as it went, the emperor possesed Anakin... made him kill Mace Windu, fight Obi Wan... and the rest. Of course when the emperor was shocking Luke, his power was temporarily weakened in Vader. (In the 3rd movie, when the emperor shocks Windu and such, it is clear he loses control over Anakin, since Anakin starts repenting killing Windu." es he needed an apprentice, and chose Luke. He even made the dark side sound good to Luke, saying that the jedi were weak and the dark side had all kinds of power. The only reason he was a lucky catch to the dark side is because he had broken the jedi law, and had married. Yoda had made it clear that that was dangerous, but he refused to follow thus was destined to join the dark side. "In this way... anakin overcomes when the emperor tries to shock LUke, kills the emperor... and then has a disco party... THE END" Yes, and that just proves my point, Anakin could have resisted at any time. now for your recent arguements: "Anakin was always meant to be a jedi...this was clear from when his medichlorines (jedi's molecules that connect them to the force) were off the chart. It would me a mistake of the entire jedi council to allow such a powerful youth not be trained by the jedi. Yoda might have disagreed with Anakin's training, but it is clear that he wanted power and that if the jedi didn't take him, the dark side may (The emperor can easily sense someone with power)" No he was ment to use the force, not neccessarily a jedi. His medichlorines were off the chart, and yes it would be a mistake for the jedi council to not train him, but after seeing the dark in him they should have killed him, before, he became such a great threat. "Plus Anakin wanted the power to free his mom and the slaves (What could be more noble right?) There was no way that Qui-Gon would not train him and therefore he was destined to be Jedi in any case" Yes he wanted to free the slaves, but when he joined the dark side he was obsessed with power. "Now on your topic of free choice...it is clear that Anakin was involved from the emperor from the minute he became a Jedi. Sure he didn't seem very attched in the first movie, when palpatine was just a Senator, but he was surely great friends by the second movie... before he got involved with Padme and had the vision that eventually lead him to the dark side. Not to mention the fact that the emperor had sent Darth Maul early on in the first movie to get OBi-Wan and Qui-gon and stuff and clearly, if the emperor can tell the future (as revealed in episode 6), he surely knew of Anakin right at the beginning before Padme and love was in the picture, so the emperor could have easily (and did) corrupt Anakin through the force. remember Anakin's medichlorines were off the scale." Yes, the vision would not have lead him to the dark side had he not have any visions. If he had not married he would not have had a vision. They may have gotten him through the force, but that was only because he was power hungry, which always leads to to darkness. "Now you say that he was tempted by love and because he broke the law, but it is clear that even other Jedi like Obi Wan supported Anakin and that he didn't convert to dark right after marriage." Not right after marriage, but it was after he was married, and the marriage played the biggest role, because his vision was of his wife dying, thus if he had not married, he probably would not have joined the dark side. "The visions... they came after Anakin met the emperor so clearly the emperor could have caused them" I concede that is true, however, had he not cared for her, it would not have been so powerful over him. "So there go all of your arguments and you never responded to any of my opening arguments directly, so therefore i must urge an affirmative ballot" Ahh, I have just argued all points possible to argue, thus Darth vader was not framed. "It is as clear as the crystals in a jedi's lightsaber...Darth Vader was framed." once again framed is not an accurate word. |
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Darth Bane is first shown in the first Star Wars movie, and is constantly reffered to in Expanded Universe material. He was a very powerful sith, who resurrects the sith order after destroying it's corruoted remnants.
Also my dad says he is very popular in the books.
Unclaimed? Even with unclaimed islands certain countries have a habit of sending in marines, if they sense the country forming is too unusual. :D
"There is no country which respects my property rights. "
Maybe you could attempt to develop your own country then. I here there is an island 400 miles off the cost of maui where you could start with.
CiRo
"Oh, and can I answer your Bane question LM?"
Sure, I guess. While we're on the subject though, you plan on buying "The Force Unleashed?"
And another question, do you know when KOTOR 3 is coming out?
Get out of this country: If you don't like how it is there is bouind to be another country, do some research on them and buy a ticket.
"
There is no country which respects my property rights. They are all guilty together, to varying degrees :D. So, not true, there is not "another country" in the sense you speak. Also, the United States government does not own the entire landmass of the United States, and thus does not have the right to make such a claim. Property claims may only be made by creating something that wasn't there before (for example, using some land and turning it into a farm makes the resulting farm your property), or transferred voluntarily, by gift or purchase, from one who did.
"Don't pay: This is riskey because if the goverment finds out you will be fined and imprisoned."
Exactly my point. It's done at gunpoint, not through consent.
"
Don't get a job: if you don't want to pay for the taxes, than as long as you don't make any money, you don't have to.
"
That's suicide.
A street robber telling me "your money or your life or go to some nonexistent place" doesn't exactly conjure an image of free association, and neither does a government. Both consider others as means to their own ends, as slaves. The statement under the "what I believe" section in your profile remains inconsistent with your actual beliefs.
If you are I have watched all episodes more than a dozen times in 6 months...I can grow bored of watching the same movie more in half a year, than I tend to watch any movies at all in a year, and still not be a newb.
If to someone else, I don't care.
@ Ragnar Rahl
"Your support of welfare, taxes, etc, involve me, because I too will be forced to pay for them. Yet according to your statement of belief, you consider it "Your problem" (i.e. not my problem, the problem of those who think like you, who agree with all the socialist measures you do.) So why am I held responsible for something that is "not my problem." Eh?"
If you don't want to pay taxes, or help with pwople without very much money, there are some solutions:
Get out of this country: If you don't like how it is there is bouind to be another country, do some research on them and buy a ticket.
Don't pay: This is riskey because if the goverment finds out you will be fined and imprisoned.
Don't get a job: if you don't want to pay for the taxes, than as long as you don't make any money, you don't have to.
Sorry if i come on harsh, I'm actually laughing right now.
Rongocatzz @ being the first to notice Ragnar.