Morality is subjective

Solarman said that morality wasn't subjective (i had brought that up in a critique of a debate he did), so i decided to challenge him to debate it. I'm also making this four rounds so i can waste this one explaining why i chose to debate Solarman on this topic, i hope he accepts.

First I am going to challenge you on the subjectivity of morality

Here are some subjects (from the 10 commandments)

theft

adultery

murder

gossip

coveting others possessions (envy)

Here are a few others

lying

abortion

subjugation of others

forced conversion to a "faith" or "state"

justification of violence against innocents

gay "marriage"

polysexuality

blurring of the lines between men and women

OVERVIEW

you are very young and have not had the life experience to know the consequences of violating ancient social morays and rules of conduct

Thus this should be educational for you

Moral Relativism, the HALLMARK OF THE DEMOCRATS AND LIBERALS , is slowly but surely destroying the basic building blocks of our society, those being the family and the Judeo-Christian ethics upon which this country was created

Everything is OK - not matter how wrong or evil - it is just anothers point of view

This is WRONG

There is GOOD and EVIL

There is Right and Wrong

these principles are encased in LAWS and SOCIAL MORAYS

they are IMPORTANT to the functioning of a free society

your turn

Sorry it took so long to post this, had a few tests I had to study for. Moreover, thank you for accepting, I will enjoy (in the loosest possible meaning of the term) debating this with you.

Firstly, since you have neglected to define morality, here is mine: morality, an individual's personal sense of right and wrong.
So morality is a personal view (and therefore subjective), some of the common threads of which were written into biblical texts over 2000 years ago. not only would the individual person's sense of right and wrong (morality) change in that time, but it would also become nonsensical to live by the "laws" or "rules" of people that lived thousands of years ago (at least in my opinion, of which im sure you disagree. what a subjective way for us to feel about an issue).
However, if you are going to use biblical text, then can you please let us know which translation you are using, is it the King James (KJV), New King James (NKJV), English Standard (ESV), New American Standard NASB), Revised Standard (RSV), New Revised Standard (NRSV), Updated NASB, Amplified Bible, New American Bible, New International (NIV), New English Bible, Good News Bible, Phillips Modern English, Living Bible (LB), New Living Bible (NLT), Jerusalem Bible, Modern Language, Contemporary English (CEV, "The Promise"), Today's English, Worldwide English, "The Message", or are you reading from a Greek or Hebrew version? http://www.swapmeetdave.com...
I assume you are not reading from a Torah (Old Testament, and the basis for Judeo-Christian faith), as you say abortion is immoral, and the Torah allows it up to the third trimester (how oddly subjective, two different faiths based, at least in part, on the Torah disagreeing about right and wrong).

To first rebut some of your examples of "wrong" things,
adultery, while many people dislike it, the people committing it obviously do not believe that it is wrong, so here is an example of two (groups of) people disagreeing about morality, about right and wrong, how subjective of them.
Murder, again people say it is immoral, but what is war but state-sanctioned murder. Seems odd, doesn't it. A random person kills someone, and is a murderer, yet a solder kills several people and is welcomed home a hero. Tad subjective, no? (Note: I'm not bashing our troops, just trying to make a point)
gossip, if this is such an immoral act (as you say), then why do so many people around the world buy tabloids? They are just gossip magazines after all. How subjective of the world.
Gay marriage, while several (mostly right wing Christians) despise gay marriage as a horrible sin, many others disagree, like say, the gays. What a subjective way to feel about a subject.
I could show you why you're other examples of wrong behavior are subjective, but I think Vie made my point.

Don't be an ageist, it's not an argument. It's your own personal feeling that the "young" don't have enough experience. To bad I disagree, how subjective of us.
Your right in the statement "There is GOOD and EVIL" and "There is Right and Wrong" however, because everyone feels differently about what is good (right), and what is evil (wrong), they are both subjective ideals. Take Christianity, it was once part of the Jewish church, but it split off (around 400 ad) because it disagreed (subjectively) with some parts of Judaism. Then in the protestant reformation, it split into two different sects because of some rather large (subjective) disagreements. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Your case is about how morality is what holds society together, however, as I have shown, this morality is entirely subjective. It is not morality (personal views) that holds society together, but the system of laws (societies) that it holds.

thank you

Here is your premise

"Firstly, since you have neglected to define morality, here is mine: morality, an individual's personal sense of right and wrong."

WRONG , WRONG , WRONG

your PERSONAL views are irrelevant

Morality is plainly and simply, a set of LAWS developed people over MILLENIA, based on both legal and spitirual means

you DO NOT have the right to determine good and evil, they are set in stone

if you start down this dangerous path of thinking , you will quickly find yourself supporting EVIL.

becuase those that are EVIL and promote it use this notion

Then you simply ramble

and then come to this ABSURD conclusion

"you say abortion is immoral, and the Torah allows it up to the third trimester"

Oh please! Cite me the passages from the Old testament (torah) that support in any way this point of view

Now onto the rest of your absurd points

"adultery, while many people dislike it, the people committing it obviously do not believe that it is wrong, so here is an example of two (groups of) people disagreeing about morality, about right and wrong, how subjective of them."

This is NONSENSE

Both adulertous people KNOW they are being wrong, and are guilty

Thousands of murders are committed every year, and hundreds of thousands of lives, espcially those of children, RUNIED by this SELFISH behavior

you dont think it hurts kids for their parents to bitterly divorce?

you dont think that the amount of pain and anguish from broken trust matter?

you dont think the ruined lives and permanent distrust that happen matter?

HOW HEARTLESS and WRONG!

----- your next liberal point -------

"Murder, again people say it is immoral, but what is war but state-sanctioned murder. Seems odd, doesn't it. A random person kills someone, and is a murderer, yet a solder kills several people and is welcomed home a hero. Tad subjective, no? (Note: I'm not bashing our troops, just trying to make a point)"

The ONLY justification your try and make here is the COMPLETELY UNJUJSTIFIBLE

you ARE bashing the troops and calling them the same as the scum who shoots a clerk in cold blood in a 7/11

or the SCUM who bomb innocents in Islamic fashion

or the SCUM like "Mumia Jamal" who murder police officers

YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR HEAD EXAMINED

----------- your next liberal point____________

"gossip, if this is such an immoral act (as you say), then why do so many people around the world buy tabloids? They are just gossip magazines after all. How subjective of the world."

When you look at the Buddhist codes of conduct, seven out of 11 deal with speech

What we say is incredibly important

Many have died based on LIES and FALSE RUMOURS

FALSE WITNESS is not only a crime but one of the worst possible things

GOSSIP is talking ill about someone NOT in their presence , where they cannot defend themselves

It is a low behavior that I will not tolerate

the fact that when rumours or even events are spread word of mouth, the story changes dramatically

THE TRUTH IS THE MOST IMPORANT THING OF ALL

----------your next liberal point---------------

"Gay marriage, while several (mostly right wing Christians) despise gay marriage as a horrible sin, many others disagree, like say, the gays. What a subjective way to feel about a subject."

You seem to always grasp for this argument

SUBJECTIVE

SUBJECTIVE

Isnt that a little bit weak?

"Don't be an ageist, it's not an argument. It's your own personal feeling that the "young" don't have enough experience. To bad I disagree, how subjective of us."

SUBJECTIVE
SUBJECTIVE
SUBJECTIVE

Im sorry, but most kids are totally stupid and have no idea just how stupid they are

the only thing that truly teaches is LIFE EXPERIENCE

and your opinions are a perfect example- liberal sophistry

finally you get something right

"Your right in the statement "There is GOOD and EVIL" and "There is Right and Wrong" however, because everyone feels differently about what is good (right), and what is evil (wrong), they are both subjective ideals."

SUBJECTIVE
SUBJECTIVE
SUBJECTIVE
SUBJECTIVE
SUBJECTIVE
SUBJECTIVE

you really need a new word

"Take Christianity, it was once part of the Jewish church, but it split off (around 400 ad) because it disagreed (subjectively) with some parts of Judaism. Then in the protestant reformation, it split into two different sects because of some rather large (subjective) disagreements. I could go on, but you get the idea"

So are you arguing that one is good and the other evil?

Your final point shows your complete confusion

"Your case is about how morality is what holds society together, however, as I have shown, this morality is entirely subjective. It is not morality (personal views) that holds society together, but the system of laws (societies) that it holds.

Uhhhmm.

How do you think we came up with our laws?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

I rest my case

MORALITY IS NOT SUBJECTIVE

YOU (YES YOU, KIDS) have a RESPONSIBILITY to YOURSELVES AND SOCIETY

to be a MORAL PERSON AND DO THE RIGHT THING

AND FIGHT INJUSTICE AND IMMORALITY

SOLARMAN

I dont know why this kid asked for 5 rounds

MORALITY IS NOT SUBJECTIVE

I rest my case

SOLARMAN