Morality is subjective
Vote Here
The voting period for this debate does not end.
| Started: | 4/2/2008 | Category: | Politics |
| Updated: | 7 months ago | Status: | Voting Period |
| Viewed: | 472 times | Debate No: | 3491 |
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (69)
Votes (24)
 Pro  Con Here are some subjects (from the 10 commandments) theft adultery murder gossip coveting others possessions (envy) Here are a few others lying abortion subjugation of others forced conversion to a "faith" or "state" justification of violence against innocents gay "marriage" polysexuality blurring of the lines between men and women OVERVIEW you are very young and have not had the life experience to know the consequences of violating ancient social morays and rules of conduct Thus this should be educational for you Moral Relativism, the HALLMARK OF THE DEMOCRATS AND LIBERALS , is slowly but surely destroying the basic building blocks of our society, those being the family and the Judeo-Christian ethics upon which this country was created Everything is OK - not matter how wrong or evil - it is just anothers point of view This is WRONG There is GOOD and EVIL There is Right and Wrong these principles are encased in LAWS and SOCIAL MORAYS they are IMPORTANT to the functioning of a free society your turn |
 |
|
Pro Firstly, since you have neglected to define morality, here is mine: morality, an individual's personal sense of right and wrong. So morality is a personal view (and therefore subjective), some of the common threads of which were written into biblical texts over 2000 years ago. not only would the individual person's sense of right and wrong (morality) change in that time, but it would also become nonsensical to live by the "laws" or "rules" of people that lived thousands of years ago (at least in my opinion, of which im sure you disagree. what a subjective way for us to feel about an issue). However, if you are going to use biblical text, then can you please let us know which translation you are using, is it the King James (KJV), New King James (NKJV), English Standard (ESV), New American Standard NASB), Revised Standard (RSV), New Revised Standard (NRSV), Updated NASB, Amplified Bible, New American Bible, New International (NIV), New English Bible, Good News Bible, Phillips Modern English, Living Bible (LB), New Living Bible (NLT), Jerusalem Bible, Modern Language, Contemporary English (CEV, "The Promise"), Today's English, Worldwide English, "The Message", or are you reading from a Greek or Hebrew version? http://www.swapmeetdave.com... I assume you are not reading from a Torah (Old Testament, and the basis for Judeo-Christian faith), as you say abortion is immoral, and the Torah allows it up to the third trimester (how oddly subjective, two different faiths based, at least in part, on the Torah disagreeing about right and wrong). To first rebut some of your examples of "wrong" things, adultery, while many people dislike it, the people committing it obviously do not believe that it is wrong, so here is an example of two (groups of) people disagreeing about morality, about right and wrong, how subjective of them. Murder, again people say it is immoral, but what is war but state-sanctioned murder. Seems odd, doesn't it. A random person kills someone, and is a murderer, yet a solder kills several people and is welcomed home a hero. Tad subjective, no? (Note: I'm not bashing our troops, just trying to make a point) gossip, if this is such an immoral act (as you say), then why do so many people around the world buy tabloids? They are just gossip magazines after all. How subjective of the world. Gay marriage, while several (mostly right wing Christians) despise gay marriage as a horrible sin, many others disagree, like say, the gays. What a subjective way to feel about a subject. I could show you why you're other examples of wrong behavior are subjective, but I think Vie made my point. Don't be an ageist, it's not an argument. It's your own personal feeling that the "young" don't have enough experience. To bad I disagree, how subjective of us. Your right in the statement "There is GOOD and EVIL" and "There is Right and Wrong" however, because everyone feels differently about what is good (right), and what is evil (wrong), they are both subjective ideals. Take Christianity, it was once part of the Jewish church, but it split off (around 400 ad) because it disagreed (subjectively) with some parts of Judaism. Then in the protestant reformation, it split into two different sects because of some rather large (subjective) disagreements. I could go on, but you get the idea. Your case is about how morality is what holds society together, however, as I have shown, this morality is entirely subjective. It is not morality (personal views) that holds society together, but the system of laws (societies) that it holds. thank you Con "Firstly, since you have neglected to define morality, here is mine: morality, an individual's personal sense of right and wrong." WRONG , WRONG , WRONG your PERSONAL views are irrelevant Morality is plainly and simply, a set of LAWS developed people over MILLENIA, based on both legal and spitirual means you DO NOT have the right to determine good and evil, they are set in stone if you start down this dangerous path of thinking , you will quickly find yourself supporting EVIL. becuase those that are EVIL and promote it use this notion Then you simply ramble and then come to this ABSURD conclusion "you say abortion is immoral, and the Torah allows it up to the third trimester" Oh please! Cite me the passages from the Old testament (torah) that support in any way this point of view Now onto the rest of your absurd points "adultery, while many people dislike it, the people committing it obviously do not believe that it is wrong, so here is an example of two (groups of) people disagreeing about morality, about right and wrong, how subjective of them." This is NONSENSE Both adulertous people KNOW they are being wrong, and are guilty Thousands of murders are committed every year, and hundreds of thousands of lives, espcially those of children, RUNIED by this SELFISH behavior you dont think it hurts kids for their parents to bitterly divorce? you dont think that the amount of pain and anguish from broken trust matter? you dont think the ruined lives and permanent distrust that happen matter? HOW HEARTLESS and WRONG! ----- your next liberal point ------- "Murder, again people say it is immoral, but what is war but state-sanctioned murder. Seems odd, doesn't it. A random person kills someone, and is a murderer, yet a solder kills several people and is welcomed home a hero. Tad subjective, no? (Note: I'm not bashing our troops, just trying to make a point)" The ONLY justification your try and make here is the COMPLETELY UNJUJSTIFIBLE you ARE bashing the troops and calling them the same as the scum who shoots a clerk in cold blood in a 7/11 or the SCUM who bomb innocents in Islamic fashion or the SCUM like "Mumia Jamal" who murder police officers YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR HEAD EXAMINED ----------- your next liberal point____________ "gossip, if this is such an immoral act (as you say), then why do so many people around the world buy tabloids? They are just gossip magazines after all. How subjective of the world." When you look at the Buddhist codes of conduct, seven out of 11 deal with speech What we say is incredibly important Many have died based on LIES and FALSE RUMOURS FALSE WITNESS is not only a crime but one of the worst possible things GOSSIP is talking ill about someone NOT in their presence , where they cannot defend themselves It is a low behavior that I will not tolerate the fact that when rumours or even events are spread word of mouth, the story changes dramatically THE TRUTH IS THE MOST IMPORANT THING OF ALL ----------your next liberal point--------------- "Gay marriage, while several (mostly right wing Christians) despise gay marriage as a horrible sin, many others disagree, like say, the gays. What a subjective way to feel about a subject." You seem to always grasp for this argument SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE Isnt that a little bit weak? "Don't be an ageist, it's not an argument. It's your own personal feeling that the "young" don't have enough experience. To bad I disagree, how subjective of us." SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE Im sorry, but most kids are totally stupid and have no idea just how stupid they are the only thing that truly teaches is LIFE EXPERIENCE and your opinions are a perfect example- liberal sophistry finally you get something right "Your right in the statement "There is GOOD and EVIL" and "There is Right and Wrong" however, because everyone feels differently about what is good (right), and what is evil (wrong), they are both subjective ideals." SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE SUBJECTIVE you really need a new word "Take Christianity, it was once part of the Jewish church, but it split off (around 400 ad) because it disagreed (subjectively) with some parts of Judaism. Then in the protestant reformation, it split into two different sects because of some rather large (subjective) disagreements. I could go on, but you get the idea" So are you arguing that one is good and the other evil? Your final point shows your complete confusion "Your case is about how morality is what holds society together, however, as I have shown, this morality is entirely subjective. It is not morality (personal views) that holds society together, but the system of laws (societies) that it holds. Uhhhmm. How do you think we came up with our laws? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? |
 |
|
Pro SweetBags forfeited this round.
Con MORALITY IS NOT SUBJECTIVE YOU (YES YOU, KIDS) have a RESPONSIBILITY to YOURSELVES AND SOCIETY to be a MORAL PERSON AND DO THE RIGHT THING AND FIGHT INJUSTICE AND IMMORALITY SOLARMAN |
 |
|
Pro SweetBags forfeited this round.
Con MORALITY IS NOT SUBJECTIVE I rest my case SOLARMAN |
 |
Loading voting charts...
Show people this debate by sending them this public link:
"you really need a new word [about how i said several issues were subjective]"
the topic is the SUBJECTIVENESS of morality, so it would hold that i am trying to prove things SUBJECTIVE, not anything else.
"you DO NOT have the right to determine good or evil, it is set in stone"
well, if the people dont get to determine for themselves what is good or evil, then who does? what makes this person's perception of good or evil so much better then everyone elses? and if they are set in stone, then where is this stone? where is it written for people to see, perhaps reference? lets look at a hypothetical situation: a canabalistic culture finds canabalism OK, perhaps even a great idea, yet another culture disagrees. who is right? what makes whoever decided that's opinion better then an entire cultures? do you get my point? morality is a subjective ideal, it varys from person to person and from culture to culture.
"if you start down this dangerous path of thinking, you will quickly find yourself supporting EVIL"
you bring evil up alot, so i have to ask, who determines evil from good? the ideas of good and evil are variable, they change from person to person. you find abortion evil, i dont. this is a perfect example of the subjectiveness of morality, of good and evil.
so it was adultery that killed them, not say someone overreacting to something. adultery doesnt cause murder.
"you dont think it hurts the kids for the parents to bitterly divorce"
it might, but if someone commited adultery, then the relationship was already on the rocks. and even if said adultery caused a divorce, theres no indication it would be a bitter one.
"the only justification you try and make here [my war is murder argument] is completely unjustifable."
murder is killing of a human being, in war its the soldures job to kill the enemy. therefore war is murder. you however, disagree, your morality does not find it immoral, mine does. is this not a perfect example of morality being subjective.
"you ARE bashing the troops"
again, im not trying to do that, im just making the point that war kills people. im sorry if i offended you.
"many have died based on lies and false rumors" "gossip is...a low behavior i will not tolerate"
so you find gossip a immoral act. the millions worldwide who buy gossip magazines (such as people, star, extra) disagree with you. yet again the morality of two different groups disagrees, what a subjective thing to do.
"you seem to always grasp for this argument [that two different groups feel differently about a moral issue]. isnt that a little bit weak"
no, its not weak. my job is to prove morality subjective, i am doing that. that is the only argument youve made against my "people feel differently about gay marrige" point. i suggest you try another.
again you say somthing you feel is correct, and i venhemently disagree. you attacked my example of our subjective feelings on a subject, with another example of us feeling differently on a subject. not a wise move, as it cooberates my point.
"so are you saying one is good and the other evil? [against my religions have fractured over the years, shows subjectiveness of morality point]"
no, what i am saying is that religious fractionism shows how morality is subjective. the early christians disagreed with the jews, and seperated from the jewish church. the protestents felt the same way with the catholics, and seperated from the catholic church. this has happend over and over again throughout the ages. one group disagrees with the morals of the other, and seperates their church. this is another way morality is subjective.
those are the reasons that morality is subjective, those are the reasons i urge you to vote pro in this debate.
thank you
note: i am going on a trip to new york tommorow-monday, and i ask my opponent to wait until sunday to post his argument, that way i can have the time to addiquitly prpare a rebuttal. thanks
If I thought carrying your ice cream in your back pocket was immoral, I'd move to wisconsin.
A law is passed to prevent or otherwise encourage the morality of its citizens, therefore, carrying ice cream in my back pocket is immoral. I do not think it is but obviously, as a law was passed on it, morals are defined by subjection rather than transuent.
If you thought abortion, yes touchy subject I know, was justified and moral, but a bible thumper would procure an argument hence, you would be at opposing morals. Therefore, Morals are subjective.
Solarman, you would advance your causes much more if you simply stopped with the epithets that got old in 2nd grade. Simply insulting someone based on political belief isn't really going to win them over to your beliefs. Rather, you are alienating potential Republicans.
Start reading beyond Ann Coulter, stop listening to radio-talk show hosts who don't even fully understand half the issues they talk about.
Get educated. Read a book other than a religious text. And when you read a religious text, read it well. Here's that line from the Torah:
"When men fight, and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage (ason) ensues, the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning." - Exodus 21:22
an aborted fetus is the equivalent of monetary compensation. If you say something about Jews I will punch you through the internets.
Judaism does allow for abortion, under special circumstances.